Paul's Corner

I won't go into my whole thoughts on this issue, but I can feel the passion in your post. I agree with much of what you say about where we should be spending our money. I work with 7th graders and I see what some of these kids go through because of their parents. It breaks my heart.

I also agree that the government should stay away from legislating morals. It is not their job. I also believe that we should focus more on helping people before they become pregnant. Before they have to face that decision. Or providing alternatives to an abortion - like help when needed. Or adoption.

I do have two questions tho? You say it's about the right of an individual to have the right to a life - I'm assuming you mean the woman. What about the life she created with another? Who helps them with their life? And second, what happened to the woman's right to choose before she got pregnant? Isn't that choice hers as well? Shouldn't we focus some efforts there?

Just some thoughts. I always respect what you have to say because you handle it well.

Take care

Jill

I am a HUGE preventive maintenence girl. I think the government should be handing our birth control like candy to our youth today. (and young adults) I think if they had the means to protect themselves they would be less likely to have an unwanted pregnancy that would lead them to the decision of abortion or adoption. The government says if we give it to them openly, that will mean they will have s*x, we are telling them it's ok. It wasn't that long ago I was a virgin youth, and let me tell you I would have had s*x with or without protection. If its going to happen then its going to happen. I think giving out the condoms and birth control pills would prevent alot of pregnancies. You can not keep them form having s*x but you can prevent pregnancies.

I think the education starts at home as far as when it's right to have s*x. My kids still want to wait till they are married to have s*x. Yes my 14 year old son thinks that as well. I shared with both of them our personal story and why it is best to wait and the way I explained it was very personal and private but delivered in a sinsitive way hit home hard and they both got it and want to wait, even though mom and did didn't. I think if more parents did this we would have less pregnancies.

As for adult women having unwanted pregnancies, I think it is thier choice as to keep or abort. It's thier body, it's her choice and if she is in a relationship that is between them to decide.
I could never abort a child between Tom and I , but could I say that if I got pregnant outside the marraige? Or if my marraige ends, would I abort a baby if it was by another man? maybe, maybe not. it would be my choice. I believe strongly in pro choice.

If the government would spend a more money on preventive matters. they would have a lot less to worry about in terms of abortion.

Just my view. For what it's worth.

Love to all

kelly

Paul, I don't think that I've ever witnessed you this stirred up about something. Don't take that that as a criticism, but as a heartfelt commendation, and support.

Politicians, or any other self-appointed authorities, have no validity and no place to dictate morality to others, at least not with an issue such as abortion. This is a personal choice, I believe. That's not to say that I either agree nor disagree with abortion.
I won't say what I believe, simply because my beliefs do not and should not apply to anyone else. And furthermore, my own personal opinions should play no part in the jugement or condemnation of any other individual, except perhaps where the welfare of the wider community is involved. And then I must be very careful. Often, the main motivation of those preaching morality, as you so well pointed out, is to elevate themselves, at least in their own misplaced self-absorbed fantasy, to some place of salvation, simply via the moral condemnation of others who are themselves victims.
It's piss weak. It's just another form of bullying, and a continuation of the farcical moral meddling that has occupied many organised religions and their followers for so many centuries.

Yes, I've got my own thoughts on abortion, but whatever those thoughts may be, I refuse to tell anyone else what they must or must not do.
We can educate, we can support, we can seek to create understanding, but above all else, as a society it is our responsibility to help those in need, whoever they may be.
We don't smack them over the head because they don't live up to our own false expectations.

If we put our efforts into creating a more positive future for our children, rather than hypocritically punishing them for following our own poor example, or for trying desperately to elevate themselves above the confused mess that they are presented with, then we might start to turn this mess around.

If a person is hurting, we should not hurt them more.

Apologies if I have offended anyone with this take on things.
It was not my intent, as I hope you will all understand.
If you disagree, then simply ignore it.

Peter

This is not really about abortion at all--it's a political strategy that has been used, along with the gay marriage issue, to great affect in the US.

How do you reduce the number of abortions? You increase education, and provide family planning and birth control options. The number of abortions went *down* during the previous administration because of these measures. For the last four years, we've had folks in power who want to stifle true education by promoting abstinence only, make abortion illegal, and make birth control harder to get. Guess what happened? Abortion rates rose, because there were more unwanted children being conceived!

But here's the thing: it's not about abortion. Over here, the right wing puts these measures on the ballot because they know they will draw out right-wing voters. It's about getting elected at any price. Simple as that. If it were truly about reducing abortions, they would take an entirely different--and considerably more compassionate--path toward that end.

Cat, True words and nicely said

Regards,

Paul, Peter, and Cat, thank you for standing up and bringing up one of the greatest moral issue of our times...the right to choose, which was the main agenda of the moralists of the right wing during the past election here in the U.S.

If the right to life is so fundamental to the moralists in this world, why are we sending our young men and women to their deaths in an immoral and ill-conceived war, and killing the children of Iraq with the collateral damage?

Shalom and Peace,

Gran Mil

It's so uncanny that Paul's post mirrors the exact same problems we have here in America.

Peter, Jill, Kelly, I agree with all of your comments whole-heartedly.

There are no easy answers, are there?

Sally

I love how respectfully you are all handling this! That is rare in today's world!

Yes Sally - there are no easy answers.

Paul-thank you for your kind words on the previous tread. Today my steps are lighter.

Jill

Up until fairly recently, this country (Ireland) has had a long history of a Church stranglehold over State. The religious tools of sin, guilt and shame were used to great effect in maintaining the status quo. Quite possibly, nowhere was this more evident than in the case of pregnancies 'outside of wedlock'. Young girls or women in this position very often found themselves being 'put away' or being 'put on the boat' to England or the States. What happened to them or the baby after that did not seem to matter. As long as they were out of the way, things could go on as before.

In some ways, things have not changed very much. In speaking out against abortion, many here boast about the fact that unlike other countries, we do not have legal abortion on demand. But the reality is that women are simply going to the UK or up North when they make the decision to have one.

A moral decision by its very nature is a personal one. You can't inherit one or adopt it second-hand. It requires an interaction between an individual and his/her conscience. When those who pursue power or who try to maintain power use the 'smokescreen' tactic with issues like this, they draw on the human temptation of someone thinking that they know what is right and if everyone just listened to them, there wouldn't be a problem. When giving into this temptation, people leave the door open to hypocrisy and self-righteousness.

Cat and Millie, if this is what you meant when you referred to the recent elections, I agree with you.

An issue such as abortion is such a personal one that I don't feel I should give any opinion of it one way or the other. Like any moral dilemma, I suspect you have to find yourself in the experience of it to get the full picture.

Love to all,
Mary

Paul,
I am glad to see a man feel so strongly for choice!
Yes, to all who say you had choice before pregnancy, but keep in mind birth control is not infallible.
There are all sorts of arguments to make, but one thing is that pro-choice people are not telling people to have abortions, just want the option open legally.
We had some out-of-state people here with trucks with pictures of abortions on them. Someone made the point, well, if someone is against the war, should they go around with pictures of dead soldiers on a truck?
Or should we counter the former with pictures of women dead in childbirth, or from home abortions? And how about pics of those the enemy killed?
I read about a man somewhere who had been very anti-abortion, picketed, etc, until the day he realized most women do not wake up one morning and decide to have an abortion out of the blue. Most of them have an abortion like a wolf chews its foot off to escape a trap. That was how desperate most of the women were. Didn't change his mind about abortion, but made him put his efforts into support systems to help women in that position.
And did I read that they just decided in Brasil that if a woman found out her unborn child had no brain, she could no longer have an abortion? Which had been one of the few exceptions. And for those who answer all life is sacred from the beginning, hope you are consistent.
Reminds me of a program a neighboring state was thinking of implementing a few years ago. Since studies showed so thoroughly that babies did better with a parent at home, they thought they might subsidize people with 2 incomes for a year or two, so one could stay home so their babies could have a better start in life.
Until someone pointed out that the state had just been busy putting as many poor single moms with babies back to work and removing their subsidies .
No question, the world is a strange place.
hugs and smiles,
deltalady aka Sally

I just thought I add my perspective on the abortion issue. I agree with the view that to prevent pregnancies contraception needs to be handed out like candy. The youth of today are going to have s*x even if older people tell them its wrong.

Abortion is the woman's choice. It is her body and she is the one that has to carry the child for 9 months. Plain and simple. The present government and anti-abortion supporters don't seem to realise the psychological effects of abortion are with the person for the rest of their life.

If abortion is made illegal then the world would be a much worse place.

Thanks for allowing me to voice my perspective.

From Elissa

hey all- My $.02=
*quote*
Abortion can not be a government decision nor a community decision. It can only be a personal decision. It is about the right of an individual to have the right to a life.
*quote*
The right to personal choices was the reason why I am a Libertarian.. I think the government should stay out of trying to legislate private decisions like this, but the majority of people are unaware of the fact that politicians come in more than just 2 flavors.
Whether or not one would ever have an abortion or be gay, or smoke pot should not be an overruling factor in how any else leads their lives.
**end partial rant**

Very well written, Paul.
I admire your willingness to speak your peace on a matter that does not physically involve MEN.

As for the government and religious involvement, don't tell me what I can or can not do, till you stand in my shoes.

Hope all is going well this week for you and your family. Any offers of screen work in the forseeable future?

DH and I are celebrating our 16th year of marriage and trying to get things in order for the big Christmas/New Years trip to New Orleans and Tampa. The house is a wreck and I like to have it all cleaned up before we leave. My sister comes over to bring in the mail and feed the indoor cat and the outdoor cats and I'm afraid if the house isn't in a decent shape she and her daughter (19) will think they need to clean it. Her method of cleaning is out of site - out of mind. Not Good for someone who is constantly hunting for something.

Any way, just thought I say my piece on this little topic, now I'll be on my way.

Hope all the PC family is doing well.
Hugs to all,
Sherrlyn

Interesting indeed. Last Monday first thing in the morning I got an email from a good friend of mine telling me that she’s getting a divorce from her husband and is now in an custody battle over their son. After the initial “What happened?” I’ve been contemplating what is the right and wrong thing to do (quickly moving from this specific situation to more general levels) and who does decide such things, who claims to have a right to decide this. Sometimes I even wonder who am I to even decide that for myself, since it is so often coming out of what society, culture, religion, morals, politicians and politics determine them to be. I did read your comments here and there throughout last week and I liked a lot of what you all had to say and it does filter into my own thinking and I agree, that it is up to me to determine what the right path is for me, even though that does not mean that I won’t ask others for input or see what others do and make connections from there to my own journey. Something I’ve been contemplating a lot this week as well is the situation of when two people (in this case it’s in my work situation with a student and thus there is a power structure involved which finds me in the position of authority) believe they are on the right track doing the right thing and their paths aren’t connecting even though they need to and it seems that the paths are moving further and further apart. Are both right even though we both feel that the other is in the wrong? And what exactly are right and wrong anyway? Very slippery concepts.

Part 2: had to figure out which of my words blocked the posting.
And this all ties into the abortion question. Saturday, as I was driving home from the Cities, I saw this big bulletin board with an anti-abortion message and it made me very angry, because someone out there has to hide behind a big bulletin board and is putting the guilt trip on other people regarding a very personal issue. I respect whatever position someone else takes on this side as it is a personal decision everyone has to make for him/herself. However, it’s rarely as simple an issue as politics and religion makes it to be, when talking about life and protecting the value of life, there are so many more facets to that discussion that some of you have touched upon already, such as killing in war and violence, suicide, death penalty, quality of life for all and that is connected to so many other things including any form of discrimination and the list goes on and the connections to so many other issues. What is important to quality of life? Being respectful, non-judgmental, loving, caring, nurturing—humanity as Paul said it in his post. Thanks for raising these issues Paul and letting us hear your views and share our own.

Love to all.

Happy 16th anniversary to you and DH, Sherrlyn!

I'm glad you plan to get to Tampa and soak up some Florida sunshine (I hope) over Christmas/New Year.

One has to get used to seeing Santa in his shorts and sunglasses in Florida. We haven't seen a snowflake in 14 years, when we left New York (during an ice storm) to retire here. No regrets, for sure!

Peace and Love,

Gran Mil

Happy anniversary Sherrlyn

Congrats to you both. It is increasingly difficult in this day and age to sdtick it out and make it work, making long and fullfililng marraiges like Mil's even possible. I look at anything over 15 years a lifetime! I am at 15 years myself, 19 years together, 18 living together) Wow I feel old!
Did you go anywere special?

Kelly

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC BUT!!!!!!

I need some help for an odd thing and because you people seem computer sauvy, maybe you can help.

We have some 12 year olds using the word "wooing" in some notes and we are trying to figure out what it means. It's not wooing in the tradition way. In the note they also mention kissing, so its beyond that. They way "Too bad you weren't at the party because we could've wooed somemore".

Has anyone heard of of this term used on the internet or IM? I can't find any info anywhere!

Thanks. Did you know that teachers love to play sleuth and figure these things out!?!

Jill

It is good know you worry with this problem, Paul. Here in Brasil, exist many problems and sometimes I wish to do something to help the persons and I don't know choice, because are many, many problems in a beautifull country because exist many egoist and with out heart people. Here, mothers have many children with out food, in misery. One day, I give some things how food and clothes to poor children and they talk: we are rich! I cry very much! The world need only of love.
Caroline

I am pro-life, not only for religious reasons but also because of my own conscience - I believe that the baby, from the moment of conception, relies on the mum, but isn't a part of her body. that's the religious part done.
As for the cases in which there is some complication, I have read a few stories about parents who decided to keep the kid so that at least they would be able to get to know the baby and love and care for them. I believe that people should never have to choose abortion, because I don't think anyone deserves to have to make such a choice. I reckon more money should go to child care etc. Feminists For Life is a great organisation that provides financial support for struggling mums. I don't think they have an Australian division yet tho.
And there are better ways to go about not wanting to have a baby, eg. the billings method is probably the most reliable method out there, where you looks at what goes on every month and "do it" only on "infertile days".
But I don't really want to go into this any further.

Aaaanyway.

The interview was today, the journey down to Wollongong was rather interesting. Mum went with me because she wanted to see what the uni was like, and I also would have someone with me if I got lost. The train ride was definitely scenic, as the train goes right through the Royal National Park (I've never seen so many trees in my life) and after that it goes south along the coast (beautiful views of the Pacific Ocean, well worth having to fork out $8 for my ticket in my opinion - Mum wasn't too happy when she found out that if we had bought the tickets after 9am, they were half price).

The interview itself wasn't too bad at all. It seems I read a bit more widely than I think. Being an Ancient History student, I have discovered Greek plays, poetry etc. Add that with Jane Austen, other stuff that's considered to be great Western literature, 1950s Beat fiction (anyone here read "On the Road"?), plays of all sorts, science fiction, fantasy...the people seemed quite amazed at the range of genres that I mentioned. They also asked me about the inspiration behind my stories, how do I come up with them, etc etc. So if you know anyone who wants to study creative writing and has to attend an interview, you can tell them that these are the sorts of questions that they might ask, and no, one doesn't have to be a master of literary criticism.

But I'm rather nervous about the fact that there are only 30 or so places in the course every year. I really hope I'm as good as people say I am, which is a lot better than I think I am. I also really hope that the people who are more knowledgable about literature and creative writing have done what's considered to be the more "sensible" thing and gone for a degree in Education at some other uni or something like that (you know, to ensure that they will actually have jobs. But I think I'd be happy if I could spend my days ushering people into movie theatres and thus getting to watch the movies w/out having to pay, while spending my nights writing and hoping to get my books published).

going back home from the interview was probably an even bigger ordeal. since there was no bus to get us out of the uni for another hour and a half, mum and I decided we'd be better off walking and we ended up arguing over which way to go to the station. it was about this time that i fully came to terms with the fact that I have absolutely no sense of direction, even with the help of maps. I ended up nearly getting us lost.

I couldn't sit with my mum in the top level of the carriage of the train back home, because once i pulled back the seat, all these moths just suddenly seemed to come out of nowhere. and one moth is enough to scare me silly. Last time I encountered a moth on the train, my friend and I ended up throwing ourselves under the seats, screaming "get that thing away from me!!!".

I was kind of looking forward to moving away from home to live closer to uni once I started Creative Writing (that is, if I do get into the course), but Mum told me (and I agree) that it's not *that* hard to get from my place to Wollongong. I really wanted it to be a fresh start in my life - new environment, new friends...new everything, almost. I wqanted it to be a real learning experience, one of those things that I don't think my parents would be able to teach me (because of the fact that I'd be living away from them)...
*shrug*

5 days til I get on the plane to Japaaaaan. When I get there, I shall take plenty of random photos on the street as well as those of the more tourist-y things. I just got an email from my other sister telling me that she's already there.

What I wouldn't give to do what she's done - to save up enough money to quit a job she hates, and then go backpacking around the world for three months with her hubby, before coming back and getting a new job. But I don't think most of us are really that lucky.

Jen

Sherrlyn, a belated congratulations on your 16th anniversary. Sorry I spaced out on Sunday. Your trip to New Orleans and Tampa sounds fun, esp. if you live somewhere in the north it's really nice to get away from the cold. Love New Orleans, wouldn't want to live there, though, but enjoyed visiting it at least every 2 months when I lived in La, because I had to stock up on good bread again, which I could only get in New Orleans.

Jen, congrats on a great job with the interview. Let the powers that be do the rest of the job for you. if it's meant to be you will get in, if not you will get in somewhere else and who knows you might get that wish of not living at home that way :) The train ride sounds lovely too. Have a safe trip to Japan and enjoy your visit there.

Love to everyone else here!
Evelyn

Anniversary is actually the 17th, Mom and dad's is the 19th and their's is 55 years together.

Since DH has to work tomorrow night, we went to the Outback Restuarant Sunday night. We really enjoy their steaks.

We have had rain here since Saturday and supposedly it will be dry Thursday and Friday and start all over again Saturday.

Farmer's are really fretting, a lot of the cotton is ready to harvest or is sitting in muddy fields in Modules waiting to go to the gin.

Who knows what the cotton crop will be like when it finally gets thru the gin.

We are going to have a bumper crop of pecans again this year. So we will have to make room in the freezer for them.

Must get off here and go put ice pack on hand.

Hugs to all,
Sherrlyn

Because they don't give a shit Paul. Your country sounds like mine - at least since Bush W. came to be.

Your comments over all were well said Paul.

Joan

Sherrlyn, good luck with the cotton and the pecan. Actually, you mentioning crops reminds me of something that I feel the need to whinge about - this whole issue of industrialisation and overdevelopment.
Last time my parents and I went back to China, pretty much the only things that we enjoyed was the shopping, getting to meet up with people we haven't seen in ages, as well as getting to eat food that we hadn't eaten in ages. But did we receive a real shock when we arrived in my mum's village, at the sight of all that industrialisation and overdevelopment. Nearly all the beautiful green fields have been cleared for all-too-cheap five storey buildings - even the people who live there have no idea what to do with all the space that they don't need! - as well as factories. A LOT of factories.
Now, most of the people in the village (including many of my aunts, uncles and cousins) never had the money to make it into high school. they were raised to be farmers, to grow rice, veggies and all sorta of stuff. When the fields started getitng cleared, they had no choice but to get jobs in the factories. One of my cousin's friends from school, when she was 19, used to earn her living by spending 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, in a factory making rice steamers. Not exactly the best way to make a living, but it's a living nonetheless.
Earlier this year one of these companies, which seems to employ a good 75% of the breadwinners of the village (just about everyone we ran into had at least one member of the family working in that factory), moved its' factory into the city.
Leaving all these people with absolutely no way of feeding their families.
Seriously, you can see just how bad the situation is by looking at all the polluted creeks, the lack of greenery and the constant smog. Even my parents, who normally would have loved going back there, were counting down the days until we got on the plane back to Sydney.
It's disgusting that China is trying to catch up with the rest of the world at this cost, and it makes me wonder what exactly it is that we are doing to our planet.
And what you just said, Joan, also seems to apply to this. I personally cannot think of anyone I know who has really thought twice about what's really going on. Sure, we nod and stuff whenever we hear people talking about it, but what are we doing to put all this into practise? Recycling paper and stuff is great, but only goes so far...

I don't know what else I have to say about all this, but there you go, it's as "off my chest" as I can get it.

Anyway (leaving the yet-untie-able loose ends untied), I think I nearly had heart failure regarding my ticket to Japan. My sister (who had generously spent the remainder of her frequent flyer points on my ticket) actually booked the tickets online. You get what's called an e-ticket. It gets stored on the airline's databases rather than being printed on paper. You get a receipt and itinerary sent to you by e-mail (a very imprtant document that you MUST print out and carry with you) All you have to do at the check-in counter is present photo ID. I looked up the Qantas site and it actually said "If you are HOLDING an e-ticket, your boarding pass will be issued once you show photographic identification"...and I stupidly thought that it meant to hold in the physical sense, completely foregetting that an e-ticket was stored on the computers and that you didn't actually need to print anything out (other than the receipt).

I can't believe tomorrow night will be my formal - possibly the last time that i will see so many people from my year at school gathered together. They only barely sold enough tickets for there to actually *be* a formal - Nov 18 just happens to be the unfortunate date of the start of the high season (thus the price opf plane tickets skyrocket), therefore many Chinese people in my year aren't going (I'm so glad I went to China last year).

I think I've rambled enough. I'm exhausted, and I think I will be even more exhausted tomorrow night after the formal...

Seeya later,

Jen

btw Sherrlyn, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!

Hey guys, just wanted to share the good news. My sister called me and told me that at her post surgery check up today, they finally ruled out cancer after 2 1/2 years and she is okay. Thank you all for your support, it really means a lot to me. Gotta go back to work.
Evelyn

WHAT GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so very happy for her!

Jill

Evelyn!!!!! I know how worried you've been. This is wonderful!!!

Love to you and your sister,
Michelle

Evelyn, I am so happy for you and your sister!! This is wonderful news. It is a lift for all of us here.

Love to you,
Mary

Mil -

I would say the one difference between abortion and the military losing their life in Iraq - the military men and women who are serving over there willingly signed up to serve their country. Babies being aborted had no say in even their conception. Somehow I see a big difference.

Robin

I would like to say this: I am totally against abortions, especially partial-birth abortions. I believe that at conception the baby already has a soul. If they can't take care of the baby, they should consider adoption. Let's not kill anymore babies.

Sara W

Hi All,

Just stopped by for a look. Paul, I totally agree with your comments. If someone doesn't believe in the right to choose abortion, then they shouldn't have one. They only speak for themselves and not me. If I choose to exercise my right to abort, then they need to step aside and let me by.

Their life, their choice. My life, my choice.

^^ I completely agree with Janice (above) ^^

Paul - Your comments are totally right on :)

And to the rest of you - Please remember
that being pro-choice, does not automatically
mean that you are pro-abortion.

It simply means that you are all for a womans
right to choose =^.^=